flat roof

House 7 Turnover

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Our turnover this year has been higher than usual. However, it’s been for good reasons, and not just because someone is looking to rent from a different landlord, so I’ll take that win. In this case, the tenant was house hunting. We knew that a year ago, and we had set up our lease to allow them to break it. Since April was their last month in this current lease term, there was no “lease break fee” associated with their notice. They gave us notice at the end of February, which requires 30 days worth of payment. March rent was paid.

They had moved out of the house early though, which ended up being very helpful. The house needed a lot of work. There was a lot of deferred maintenance on this house. We bought the house as a flip. It looked fine on the surface, but we knew it wasn’t going to hold up. Our last couple of turnovers happened really quickly, so we didn’t put much effort into the turnover process. With the extra time, we knew we needed to address some issues.

PAINT: $2,750

First, we finally got the flat roof addition fixed on this house last summer. The flippers before us had added a laundry room to the back of the house. They used the existing covered deck infrastructure, and it was horrible. They didn’t tie it into the house correctly, so we endured several leaks into the laundry room. We struggled for years to get a roofer who would address it for us. We even hired a roofer, highlighted the flat roof issue, and missed that his contract didn’t do anything except replace the shingles on the main house roof. There was plenty of saga once we finally found someone to rebuild it, but it’s done. We hadn’t fixed the drywall from the leaks, so that needed to be done now (a.k.a. deferred maintenance).

We found a painter who repaired the drywall, repainted the ceiling, and painted the walls. He also painted most of the trim in the house to white (there was some damage on the baseboards that needed fixed) and all the walls Green Tint by Benjamin Moore.

Two tenants ago, we had given an offer that if she wanted to paint any of the rooms, we’d offer a rent concession. That was part of the deferred maintenance; most of the house was dingy white that took a beating over the years, but we never had the time between tenants already lined up to paint everything. She took us up on that offer. She even painted the bathroom vanity and medicine cabinet. It was a beautiful robins egg blue, but we didn’t have the paint to do a few touchups on the side of the vanity that were needed. Our painter added that to the work at no cost. He absolutely didn’t need to do that! But everything has a fresh coat of paint now, and I’m so happy at the facelift it gave.

FLOORING: $6,613

When we first bought this house, the bedrooms on the first floor had dingy carpet in it. The prospective tenant we had requested we replace the carpet. I can’t remember the series of events, but we determined it was better to refinish the hardwoods underneath the carpet than to continuously replace the carpets every 3-6 years. They’ve held up pretty well, but they are starting to show wear at 7 years in.

Regardless, we didn’t touch the carpet on the stairs or on the second floor of the house. It’s blue indoor/outdoor carpet. I truly can’t believe we’ve been able to house renters in this place with this carpet still in place. We’ve put it off because re-carpeting stairs is just so expensive relative to doing a whole room. One of the bedrooms on the second floor even has wood paneling, which just made it even more amazing that anybody wanted this house. It was not the most aesthetically pleasing place.

We replaced all the carpet. With the fresh carpet and fresh paint, it’s looking so much more inviting.

Then we move on to the kitchens and bathrooms. The first floor bathroom and kitchen floor were clearly just lipstick-on-a-pig situations by the flippers. The subfloor was clearly bowing and making all the cheap tile crack. The humidity issues in the bathroom (I’ll touch more on in a moment) weren’t helping matters in there.

Here you can see the kitchen (and its pink knobs!) with the tile floor. The tile had all cracked by this time.

The upstairs bathroom was original 1970s linoleum. Here’s a snip of it in its glory.

Trying to match/add the hardwood was not an option. We considered ‘luxury vinyl tile,’ but that was more expensive than I wanted to put in a rental property. I didn’t want to retile it because I just personally don’t find tile floors to be warm and cozy for a house. The only reasonable option left is ‘luxury vinyl plank.’

We requested a quote from Home Depot. Their quote was cheaper than the one we ended up going with, but we didn’t use them for good reason. We had a subfloor issue in another house. Home Depot was extremely difficult to work with. Not only were they doing questionable work, they also just threw their hands up at the subfloor issue. Luckily, we had a friend that was able to help us repair it (because we didn’t live there). We know for a fact that there’s subfloor issues here (we can see the bow in the floor at the sliding door), so we wanted to go with a contractor who could handle everything.

We picked a local company. They did both the carpet and the LVP. They were so easy to work with. I didn’t love that they wanted me to pay for the entire job up front, but it ended up being great. They had to come back to finish a few tasks, and they did it all perfectly. I’m really happy with the process and their product.

Another miscellaneous flooring issue was that the vent covers were rotting. The finish on them were peeling. This could be explained by humidity in the bathroom, but that doesn’t really explain the issues in the kitchen and living room also. Our handyman was able to pop those out and get new, clean looking ones in for us.

RANDOM WORK

We had to call on our handyman for random jobs. He had to tighten the front porch banister. It’s likely the original banister and has just corroded at the connections. He also had to tighten up the screen door (which, if it were to break would be removed; having to maintain non-essential pieces of a rental is no fun). Some light fixtures needed major TLC. We replaced the light fixtures in both second floor bedrooms, the sconce type light fixture in the half bath upstairs, and the main bathroom’s vanity light (it was all corroded and looked bad).

The upstairs half bathroom had a brown accordion door. The pieces were falling off and it just generally looked bad. The space is tight, and an accordion door style was definitely the best solution for the area, so we had a white one put in. It’s still less than ideal, but it looks much better.

The previous tenant didn’t clean up the yard as they were supposed to, so we had to hire out that work. We also asked him to clear the gutters, which was very necessary because it looked like trees were growing out of them with how many twigs were stuck. He charged me $250 to rake the leaves from the yard and flower beds, mow the yard, and trim the bushes. Then he added on $50 for the gutter clean out. We also did a final mowing before the new tenants moved in, and he charged me $60 for that.

I’m not exactly sure what the issue is, but for some reason we had water damage in the main bathroom. It wasn’t water damage in the sense of standing water. It was just too much moisture. The mirror was corroded; the tub faucet handles were corroded; the caulk was all moldy (and we knew it was fine a year ago); the walls had water streaks on it. I don’t know how it was fine for years and now it’s not, but I’m guessing the only answer is that last tenant just liked really hot showers and didn’t use the vent or window. The tub knobs were so corroded that they had to be sawed off and new valves and such installed. Luckily our plumber was able to handle it timely and it looks better now, but that was a minor inconvenience.

The back sliding door had always been questionable. No one ever pushed us on it though, so we didn’t know just how bad it was. I don’t know that the door ever fully locked. There was a block used to hold it shut for security measures (although I feel like everyone who has a sliding door uses something like that). I finally wanted it replaced. It was likely the original door (think nickel type finish), and it was overdue. We did this through Home Depot because I knew their prices were reasonable and it should be an in/out job. It was $1063.

NEW TENANT

Our property manager showed the property to several candidates. Only two provided their interest form timely. An interest form is a way to gather background documentation on the potential tenant without the tenant having to spend any money. It’s a way for the prospect to divulge any negative remarks on their credit or background check. It’s a good gesture that we allow them to fill this out before spending money on an application fee that will identify disqualifying information. We have found that some people don’t tell us anything, and then they’ve spend $43 for us to say they don’t qualify.

Both prospects submitted their interest forms on April 18. Unfortunately, both of them were interested in a mid-May lease start date. They both offered to do a 2 year lease as a compensating factor though, which was a nice gesture. I also appreciated that both of them were well spoken and up front with a lot of information.

We chose someone and ran her background check. Several “unlawful detainers” (a.k.a. evictions) came through, which hadn’t been disclosed. We told her that her credit score was slightly below 600 and the unlawful detainers would disqualify her. She then wrote back a very nice note explaining all the data that we found and asked us to reconsider. We agreed to rent to her and to take a higher security deposit as a compensating factor. She agreed to the 1.5 times a month’s rent as a security deposit.

Unfortunately, the house was vacant for a month and a half. Luckily, during that time we were able to get a lot of work done in the house. I hope that this tenant takes good care of the home and that we’re pleasantly surprised with her tenancy regardless of her history of late payments and court filings.

Roofing Lesson

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Today’s post is going to be short and sweet. Well, that’s how I think to start every thought I have to share, and it turns into a novel with research and ‘citations.’ Let’s see how this goes. Update: It’s long, there’s a legal citation, and I ‘teach’ math. Sorry. 😛

We have two houses with flat roofs. They’re a pain. They always seem to leak, and no one wants to work on them.

In 2019, we had issues with a house that had an internal ice dam and gutter system, in addition to a flat roof over an extension. Water kept leaking in the kitchen. After two years of issues, we finally had a roofer respond to our request for help on a flat roof. As soon as a roofer hears “flat roof,” they seem to shut down and say they don’t work on flat roofs. Here was the quote.

So we had this work done for $1,900, and we haven’t heard about the roof since.

We have another house where there was a flat roof added to an addition. In 2017, we had a roofer replace the roof. Somewhere, something was lost in translation of the job. We thought he’d address the flat roof and fix it, incorporating it into the main roof line. He finished the job, and it was clear that was not part of the scope as we thought, even though that was the whole reason we called him out. He simply said “I don’t work on flat roofs.” That wasn’t clear when we asked you to give us a quote, and how do you just ignore that there’s another roof line as a roofer?

The more we spent time and money on this roof, the more it came to light what happened. It appears that there was a deck that eventually was covered with a corrugated metal sheet. Then someone decided they wanted a laundry room, so they built a laundry room under this metal sheet. The roof line wasn’t properly insulated from water infiltration. We had several issues of water leaking into the laundry room. Mr. ODA put silicone and caulk along the roofline as a stopgap because roofers weren’t acknowledging us. We thought we had fixed it, and I had put a lot of effort into fixing the wet drywall and repainting the room. After two years, the silicone finally gave way.

Our property manager was able to get 3-4 roofers to come look at the job, but only 2 gave us a quote (why is it a norm to just ghost customers and not have the decency to close the loop and say you don’t want the job?). One of the contractors didn’t appear to understand the job, and that concerned me. He seemed to want to redo the entire roof, and that was definitely not in our finances for this house because we replaced the roof 3 years ago. Then he also suggested a ‘TPO roof’ for the flat roof. I don’t know what that is, and I didn’t like that the explanation to me started with “it’s a flat roof that…” No. I’m done with “flat.” Did I give it a fair chance? No. Do I care? No. I wanted a pitched roof line. This is important for later in the story.

I had several concerns about the other roofer’s estimate, but they were less fundamental (or so I thought). First, I was concerned about the terminology being used as a porch. Perhaps it’s just me, but I call the open-air overhang on the front of the house the porch, and the open-air part attached to the back of the house a deck. I was concerned that the terminology “pitched roof” was not explicit enough to our end goal. I questioned that his removal of the corrugated metal roof would leave the deck exposed, so the gutters would need to be rerouted and added. I also questioned about how he was going to cover the sides once the pitch was created – would it be just painted or would it be sided, and if sided, how would he match it to look right.

I had my property manager call him, I called him, and I emailed him, but I received no response. I was trying to confirm the scope of work. Mr. ODA told me that these contractors are good at their job, but not good at the administrative side, so just let it go. I was an auditor; accurate documentation for a job is important to me. 🙂

Here’s how it was written:

I decided to try to be easy going. There was a space for comments when I accepted the proposal. I added: I’m accepting this estimate based on the verbal agreement with [property manager] that the scope of work is confirmed as removing the flat roof over the DECK and laundry room (not sure ‘porch’ terminology), that the deck won’t be covered again and a lean-to roof will be put over the laundry room, and that all gutter systems will be appropriately rerouted to divert water from the house.

He gave me the quote on June 23rd. I accepted this work on July 5th. He kept delaying us. He would say “I’m going to get the materials today, so we’ll be there tomorrow.” Tomorrow never came. On August 25, he said he was going to 100% start the following Monday and be done by Wednesday. He finally called on Wednesday, and he said, “I got my guys out there today. I decided to do a TPO roof instead.” You’re kidding me, right? He kept pushing that it’s a “better” roof than a pitched roof, and I should be ok with it. Except, I signed a contract. The contract did not say their job was to install a TPO roof. I said that was unacceptable and I wanted a pitched roof. Here’s the picture that I received at that point. It looks really flat to me, and it has the point where it meets the main house still below the roof line (although you probably can’t tell there as well here).

On September 5th, he said they should be out the following day to finish it as a pitched roof. It took until September 11th for us to be told that the roof was done. As you can see, the gutters were not addressed. Luckily he said he’d get right out to fix that, and he did, which was appreciated.

While you can see that there has been a slight pitch added, it is not a sufficient pitch as required for asphalt shingles. Did I know there was a minimum slope requirement for asphalt shingles before September? Nope. But you bet I read up on it and figured it out as fast as I could. Nearly all manufacturers of asphalt shingles have a minimum requirement of a 2:12 slope. On top of that, Virginia Code has the same slope requirement.

This means that for every foot, the rise of the tallest point must be twice that in inches. A 7 foot long distance from the top of the pitch to the outer wall requires a 14 inch rise at the tallest point. That’s the simplest way I’ve been able to describe it.

While the connection point in the second try is above the wall/roof intersection, and it may have been ‘fine,’ I wasn’t here to spend $3,800 on “fine.” He kept pushing that he guarantees his work for 5 years. He also pointed out that a tropical storm was on its way that coming weekend, so it would essentially be a good stress test. So, he was asking me to pay him for a job that was “good enough” and hope that if there was a problem, he’d come back and fix it. No thanks.

He got up on the roof, held up a piece of metal (with no level), and claimed that his zoomed in distance was 2″ off the roof, so it was 2:12. Once I finally got to the point of saying, “what’s the distance from the house?” He said 7′. I said “so the rise has to be double that, so 14″. Is it 14″?” He said no and that he’d fix it. He finally got it done last week. He took pictures along the way to prove that he did the job correctly since I called him on not doing it correctly (or let’s just do the work right to begin with instead of hoping a homeowner won’t question it – where’s integrity these days).

All that was to share that you should do your due diligence when hiring contractors. Don’t assume that they’re going to do the right thing because they’re probably going to assume you’re not well-educated in their field. By no means am I a roofing expert at this point, but I appreciate knowing something new. I just wish I didn’t have to learn things quickly in order to protect my ‘investments.’ So now you also know that there are manufacturer requirements, in addition to your expected state-wide requirements in most fields. Take the time to be educated just enough or have someone you can trust to point out where it went wrong. In this case, I said “that doesn’t look like what I expected,” and I had our handyman look at it. He said the pitch isn’t enough, and that’s where I learned that there are minimum slope requirements. It’s hard because I didn’t know what I didn’t know, but I appreciated having other trusted people to bounce questions off of.