New Car Financial Decisions

There was a time where we liked the idea of purchasing a new car, but we’ve since come around to buying a 2-3 year old car. We don’t eat that initial drop in value by driving it off the lot, and we can find a car that has mostly what we want for the right value. The point I want to make in this post is how we paid for the car and why, but the entire history of the purchase and thought process is detailed beyond that section, if you’re interested.

FINANCIAL DECISION

Once we decided on the van, we needed to figure out the price (more details are below). They offered $1,000 off the price if you financed, so we agreed to that. With our trade in value, taxes and fees adjusted, and the negotiation of work to be done, the net came to $9,000. The minimum to finance was $7,500. So instead of throwing the full $9,000 into the loan, we asked to put $1,500 on the credit card and finance the $7,500. By putting the $1,500 on the credit card, we made $30 in rewards.

The financing was 6.99% and we chose the option that allowed pay off after 4 payments. There was an origination fee of $175, which is rolled into the principle. Our payment is $151.94. The first 4 payments hold $175.07 worth of interest. So we will pay $175.07 of interest and the $175 origination fee as a means of taking $1,000 off the list price. That nets us, including the $30 of credit card rewards, $679.96 less on the list price. After the 4th payment is made in May, we’ll make a lump sum payment of about $7,134 to pay off the loan.

MINIVAN HISTORY

In 2020, we purchased a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica. It met so many of my wishlist items, and a dear friend of mine put a lot of effort into finding just what we wanted. Well, there were some things wrong with the sliding door, the steering wheel would get sticky at “10” and “2,” and there were a couple of small defects with the stow and go seating. The sticky steering wheel was a known issue, but we didn’t want to pay to fix it because they wouldn’t create a recall (for the record, it was pretty sticky… where I’d have to jerk the wheel to get it to move again).

In February 2023, with a 2 month old child in tow, we went to Ohio to look at another van. It was a red 2020 Pacifica. I didn’t love the red, but it came with an 8th seat and had a bunch of upgrades (heated seat) we didn’t have in the 2017 version. I have a clear memory of the car doing a little skip as we got on the highway multiple years ago, and ever since then, we’ve been watching some things with the engine. The car never had the ‘check engine’ light come on, but something wasn’t working smoothly in there. Mr. ODA mentioned a desire to get a new van, so we went looking.

He found several options nearby and we went out for test drives. Actually, we planned to do a lot of test drives, but it was a Sunday. Apparently car dealerships are closed on Sundays, and I had no idea.

First we tried driving other makes and models, but it’s hard to beat the value of the Pacifica. The other vans seem to be trying really hard to be fancy to compensate the stigma of being a minivan, but I’m not here for that. A van is extremely spacious and practical. I’m in a completely functional phase of life with 3 little kids and a dog.

PACIFICA TEST DRIVE #1

The first thing to note is that we went to two places and both places had the salesman drive with us in the van. I really thought covid killed that for us!

We went to the first one right in town. It was a silver van, and I don’t love that color. I thought I could live with that red van, but for 3 years it drove me crazy. When we got to it, it wasn’t so bad. It’s a really light silver. There were some broken things, and right off the bat, the salesman was gaslighting me that it wasn’t broken. Over the drive, I came to learn that he was proudly divorced with no kids. What a great job that the dealership assigned our online inquiry to this guy! He was super condescending about vans and kept cracking jokes about his awesome sports car and how we need one (or that we need a second Tesla). Mr. ODA shared a philosophy on debt, and he assumed he understood our position and wouldn’t let the wise-cracks go. Then to top it off, he handed our 3 year old a noise-making key chain. It took them 20 minutes to get us a quote on the van and our trade in, and I was on the verge of just walking out. The only thing keeping me there was knowing that our next stop was likely going to be a solid van, and I wanted this data point on what they were offering.

They have a required $1500-1800 certified pre-owned fee that’s on the car, and they weren’t willing to remove it. Their value for my car was low, and when I asked why the ‘good’ rating, he gave me some answer on what perfect meant and how no one is perfect. I tried to say, “so there’s nothing between good and perfect?” but people were too busy interrupting me, and I just shut down at that point. For the record, very good is in there, and my van was kept in great shape (outside of a possible transmission concern). They also tried to sell extras all over the quote, and our net was over what I wanted to pay. We got there at 10:40, and I was trying my hardest to run out of there by 11:45. Nothing about that experience should have had us there for over an hour.

PACIFICA TEST DRIVE #2

This vehicle was just under an hour from home. Ironically, this small town dealership was way nicer and the people were easier to deal with. A weird tidbit of us, but we prefer cloth seats over leather seats. The Tesla doesn’t even have a cloth option, so we have been living with the leather for over a year and it’s not so bad. I still would have preferred cloth seats, but there weren’t any on the market this week. After living without heated seats on that first van, that’s been a deal breaker for me. We also couldn’t find any vans with the 8th seat option. The 8th seat doesn’t make a difference to us as a family, but we did use it for guests visiting us fairly often. The possible transmission issue trumped our ability to serve others though.

Mr. ODA didn’t care to drive the first couple we drove, but he must have liked this one because he asked to be the one to drive it back to the dealership. That put me in the passenger seat, where I noted the visor’s clasp was missing. The visors were also swapped with each other (how does someone go about doing that with all the electric in there for the mirrors), and there was a clasp missing for the rear window shades. The outside has a dent on the side and couple of paint chips, so we asked for a paint pen also.

It was listed on their own website for higher than edmunds, but he pointed out that if we finance the vehicle, the final price was lower than edmunds by a little. They were offering $1000 off the list price for financing. We learned that concept on the drive out there. I thought saying, “I’ll hand you cash today” was better all this time. They take the financing because they make money off it. We learned they use a few banks, and one allows it to be paid off after 4 payments and the others require 6 payments before it can be paid off.

The salesman went to the ‘tower’ and got a quote. He didn’t show us. Instead, he pointed out what he purchased the car for, what they listed it at, and that they were already at a $651 loss. Um, I call BS. There’s no way your group made that type of business decision. He went back for the quote. He didn’t push the ‘loss’ concept, but he did keep mentioning it once in a while. I hope he noted we were seeing through the crap there. He was claiming they wouldn’t fix the things wrong because they’re already taking a loss. I said that was fine and we’d leave because I wasn’t about to put the time and effort into replacing a completely broken visor on a new-to-me vehicle. He went to get maintenance to look at the car and provide a quote. To their detriment, the tech put the quote on the salesman’s desk with just us in the room so we saw that the 3 things we asked for would cost under $100. Honestly, I’m wondering why they wouldn’t just go ahead and repair the visor. That’s a glaring thing that a drive would see daily, so why not just fix it so it doesn’t become a negotiation point of me, the potential buyer?

He came back with a net cost to us around $9,500. He said they’d take $200 off to fix those things. Mr. ODA said, “make the net $9,000, and we’ll take it.” And so, that happened. We walked in the dealership at 12:38 and had an agreed upon price at 2:30. We didn’t leave until 5:04. I was livid. The salesman said he could have us out of there in 45 minutes, which was a point to us taking the car off the lot that day because they’d have enough time to detail it. The car was detailed and I asked to look at it. It was not cleaned. All they did was vacuum and wipe down the leather seats. The cup holders and down the side of the walls were dirty and sticky, so I sent it back for more cleaning.

At about 4:30, I made a scene that I would have paid the $1000 to get out of there without waiting on financing for over 2 hours. At 4:40, we were taken into the financing office where he flew threw signatures and paperwork, apologized that there were 4 closings at the same time, and we were handed our key at 4:52. Since we hadn’t planned on actually finalizing a deal, we then had to throw all our stuff from our van into the new van while it was about 30 degrees and 25 mph winds (we had arrived in the sun and 50s!).

SUMMARY

We’ve learned over the years that our needs in vehicles change. Adding kids changed how things move. We drive to NY multiple times a year, plus all the driving we do for trips we take. We put one seat down so there’s room for the dog’s dog bed for trips. All 3 kids are in some sort of car seat or high back booster still. The youngest is annoyingly not independent on his car seat buckling and unbuckling (the other two were absolutely independent by this age). So for now, a van is still our need. By not investing in a brand new car, we don’t feel the need to keep it forever to protect an investment. This allows us the flexibility to switch what we have if we decide we don’t need something anymore (the dog is 13, there will be less car seat needs in a few years). Our trade-in net has been about the same each time, so I’m happy to pay about $3000 per year to own the car (in concept) without paying interest or a dealer for a lease agreement (along with the stress of issues when it’s a lease).

Expense Analysis

Back when I spent my days working in front of a computer, it was easy for me to analyze our spending. These days, with 3 kids in tow, I’m lucky to record our finances timely. There’s no time for analyzing. But over the past two years, I haven’t been happy with our spending total for the year, so it was time to look into it a bit more. It’s hard to know what has changed since I don’t have month over month, or year over year, trends to compare this data to, but it’s a start.

There are some caveats.

  • I don’t include any spending that isn’t on a credit card here. That means some of our rental property bills aren’t captured (they’re paid via Venmo or check), but I decided that’s ok because I can see that in a different way (a separate spreadsheet). Those expenses are reactive and a necessity to running the business, so it’s not like I can change a spending trend there. I’m more curious about our actual expenses and where our money is going for personal decisions. There will be some rental expenses captured here though.
  • I’m doing this analysis for the first half of the year. If this was for a month at a time (which is a goal), then I’d be able to dive deeper into spending at each place. For instance, at Walmart, those expenses aren’t always ‘grocery.’ However, I don’t have the time to go through all the purchases and siphon out non-food purchases. I did go through most of the Amazon purchases and categorize them.
  • If a purchase was made at Lowe’s or Home Depot, it’s classified as home improvement. It may have been rental property work, but generally it’s related to something we’re doing at our house.
  • If a purchase was made while on vacation (such as amusement park, tolls, hotels, dog sitting) , it’s categorized as ‘vacation.’ If we were on vacation and purchased food, it wasn’t labeled as vacation. All fast food or restaurant purchases for the first half of the year are categorized as ‘restaurant.’
  • If we did an activity from home, it’s labeled as ‘entertainment.’ If we did something related to sports (this includes swim lessons, ticket purchases for performances, etc.), then it’s labeled as ‘sports.’ The entertainment versus sports delineation is because something like a single tournament could be considered entertainment, but I kept all sports items as ‘sports.’
  • None of this includes whether we were reimbursed by someone else for a purchase. For example, we purchased tickets for 15 of us to go to an amusement park on vacation, but we only paid for 4 tickets of that personally. Mr. ODA is a personal shopper for restaurants, so much of our restaurant shopping around town is actually later reimbursed in that process (but not captured here because it’s not a credit card line item).

In the process of going line-by-line on my expenses, I discovered that I never received a refund for something. I placed an order on Etsy for a personalized gift for my niece’s birthday. A few days later, I went to check the status of the order, and I discovered that the shop I ordered from was no longer selling on Etsy. I was frustrated that I received no email that told me my order wouldn’t be fulfilled. I contacted Etsy customer service. At the time, I misunderstood Etsy’s billing process. I assumed it was charged when the item shipped. As I was just going through charges, I realized that the amount was charged on the date of purchase (e.g., not when shipped), and I had never received a response from Etsy. After another frustrating round of attempting to contact customer service this morning, I finally received a resolution. Now my ‘to do list’ has to keep track of this refund appearing. It’s $10.01, so it’s not the end of the world. However, it would be nice if Etsy shuts down a seller (their words), that they manage the outstanding orders without me having to take my time to get it corrected. Plus, if I let every “it’s just $10” go, it could add up quickly.


FIRST HALF OF THE YEAR SPENDING

By far, our largest slice of the pie up there is for rental expenses. Honestly, I’m happy to see that so much of our credit card expenses are taken up by rental expenses we had. I pay our insurance premiums (where they aren’t escrowed) via credit card, and I can pay our county taxes for one house with a credit card, which I do for the cash back rewards. There was flooring replaced at one house, which was a significant amount of that slice.

The ‘home improvement’ category includes new patio furniture we purchased, but were reimbursed by insurance (a tree fell on our deck). It also includes the electrician work and dirt fill purchases that we needed for the deck rebuild. Our house has a few more fairly large projects we want to complete, so I expect that to continue being a larger chunk.

I know that our “grocery” expense isn’t completely groceries. I’d like to focus on this category of spending more in the second half of the year. I want to quantify what’s purchased at Walmart that is actually grocery versus personal shopping type purchases. I think that our grocery purchases are higher than they should be, but I can’t put my finger on exactly why. Historically, I’ve blamed it on ‘bulk’ shopping; Mr. ODA will go to Kroger for the “buy 5” type sales. I’m not sure that’s it though.

We don’t eat at restaurants very often. We usually eat at fast food places while we travel or are away from home at an inopportune time. When we’re at home, we’re usually eating at a “personal shopper” experience where our food cost is mostly reimbursed (although that’s not captured in the chart).

Our health insurance deductible is $3,200 per year, so we expect slightly more than that each year in the medical expense category (and based on how deductibles work, that expense is front loaded in the year). I actually pre-paid a bill at a child’s urgent care visit. I paid them $50, but that visit, along with two more visits since then, came to a total of $12. I’m waiting for their reimbursement of that difference.


PERSONAL SPENDING

I’m going to dig deeper into the ‘personal’ category. I labeled a bunch of things as ‘personal’ as a means of not having too many small slivers of the overall spending pie. This includes all gifts, needs for kids (new shoes), clothing for kids, gym membership, sports, etc. It includes a ‘shopping’ category. I spent some time going through my Amazon orders and categorizing them, but the ‘shopping’ category was too daunting and difficult to parse out further. About a third of the ‘shopping’ category is Amazon orders through Mr. ODA’s account that I didn’t pull up to categorize. The rest is random purchases that were probably related to gifts or kids clothing.

For entertainment, this is small things like going to the movies (which we go for $2 per ticket), bowling, and aquarium. The largest chunk of this pie part here is actually 4 season pass lift tickets for our family’s future winter season. I put the ‘mom’ category to see what I’ve purchased for myself that wasn’t a necessity (e.g., a travel cosmetic bag, baseball shirts to wear to my son’s games), as well as my one hair cut and one pedicure that I’ve gotten this year so far. The ‘other’ category is boring stuff – utilities, car maintenance, professional fees, etc.

Had I gone through my Walmart orders in detail, I would have been able to identify some more purchases that could be removed from ‘shopping’ and put into other categories. For instance, the ‘dog’ category is actually higher because I order his glucosamine and tooth cleaning treats from Walmart most of the time, and that’s a monthly expense. His annual vet appointment is in the Fall, so this will be a larger slice of the pie for the end of the year.


SUMMARY

Our annual credit card payment total for the last three years have been about the same. While it’s a ‘win,’ that it isn’t increasing, it’s still at a number that I don’t like. Mr. ODA has been working towards a ‘retirement’ date. We’ve pushed it back just because his job hasn’t significantly impeded our lifestyle, but the day will eventually come. If it’s next year, I’d feel better if our credit card payments weren’t as high.

I went into this expecting my grocery category to be higher than I’d prefer. I didn’t identify much of what is causing that, so I’ll try to focus heavily on watching that expense each time it hits the credit card, rather than trying to remember what each purchase entailed six months later.

I was surprised to see the gas category such a small sliver of the pie. We’ve done a lot of trips (although, I suppose a majority were in July, which isn’t captured in this data). It appears living in a smaller city and doing things mostly on this side of town means we’re not having to fill up our tanks too often.

Overall, I didn’t notice any egregious spending. We don’t spend for the sake of spending. This year we traveled more than we had the previous two years, but mostly our spending is the same. Now that we’re two years into our house, there are less projects that we’re putting money towards. I’m encouraged that now that I’m looking at this, I’ll be able to identify areas to scale back.